Dear Richard,

Thanks for that. Have reread CAR 255 and see what you mean. It was probably my erroneous interpretation of the word "may"!

Will go and get one for the Archer!

Thanks for the kind words and patient help!

George

You're very welcome. Before you go drilling holes or putting stickers on the Archer, remember this is only my interpretation of the regs as I see them.

I'd be interested in hearing a clear ruling on this one in any case. Maybe it's just me but the regs do seem a bit all over the place on this topic.

I'm also intrigued by some of the refuelling questions, in particular Q11 in Sample Question Set 1, a similar question came up in the practice Cyber exams (CLWA_122).

Passengers may not embark or disembark from and aircraft of 6 seat capacity
a) During Refuelling with AVGAS
b) During refuelling with AVTUR with Anti-Static Additive
c) During any refuelling operation
d) When no earthwire is connecting the aircraft to an earthing point

The reference for the question is CAO 20.9.4.2.3 which prohibts refuelling on aircraft without underwing capability and makes no mention of seating capacity. Now I got the Cyber exam question right by choosing C because when I did the sample question I got it wrong as I chose refuelling with AVGAS but I'm not convinced that is the correct answer.

The March 2010 amendment removed references to a 20-seat limit in several sub-regulations. I suspect that is making these refuelling questions a little ambiguous.

In any case, I don't know of any 6-seater aircraft that has underwing fuelling capacity. So, as it stands, in this question I reckon you'd be safe to assume that CAO 20.9 4.2.3 applies. You would therefore be explicitly prohibited from embarking/disembarking pax during refuelling ops. Option C would be the correct answer.

By the way, 4.2.4 only applies to non-movable patients and is an amendment built in for Aeromedical operators as described in the printed explanatory notes for the Mar 2010 amendment to CAO 20.9.

Answer A is sort of correct since you definitely cannot load pax while refuelling with AVGAS. However, that answer infers it is ok to load pax while refuelling as long as it's not AVGAS. That is definitely wrong.

Does that help, James?

Can't think of any either off the top of my head, some of the smaller Citations might as an option.

I can see where you are coming from and knowing that the rules behind the question does make a bit of sense, just have to hope if I get a similar question in the exam they've updated it

He rich, i had this question today in my exam and i answered that it needed to be an oral warning and have the sign displayed and i got it wrong?? Any ideas. I thought we needed to brief pax then in the CARs it rambles on about signs 'may' be displayed. I dont even know the right answer. This particular question totally confuses me.

Hi Rossy,

Yeah the wording in the regs on this one are a disaster. Why they can't just come out and say it in plain english is beyond me. Anyway, the regs say you may not smoke on or near an aircraft and that a sign must be displayed at times when smoking is forbidden.

We had a discussion about oral warnings a few posts back and I reckon in real life you'd have to mention it to your passengers as part of a complete passenger briefing. The question is whether this oral warning is legislated. I don't see a reference to the requirement for oral warnings in the regs, just a requirement that a notice be displayed.

Therefore, even though you'd almost certainly tell your passengers not to smoke, the law seems to only require a sign for the times when smoking is forbidden and that would most probably be the answer they were after.

Can you remember any more specifics that might shed light on this one?

Cheers,

Rich

This is obviously a popular question in the exam database at the moment as I had it a month ago. If I recall I chose an answer that referred to No Smoking signs only and the area didn't come up on my KDR, can't remember the phrasing of the question or answers though.

Thanks Rich, i could not make any sense of it coz like it says in the cao's, under pax briefing in 20.1. para 14.1.1. a. pax need to be briefed on smoking...

Guess if i get this question again next week i'll just give the answer that says a sign only and hopefully this will suffice.

Hi Rossy,

You're right, smoking is mentioned as part of a passenger brief in CAO 20.11 para 14.1.1. The question is whether this consitutes an "oral warning". The exact wording in the CAO is that the passengers are "orally briefed before each take-off on... smoking, including the prohibition of smoking in toilets".

In legal terms, an "oral brief of passengers on smoking" does not necessarily mean you are forbidding smoking. It just means you must mention the policy on smoking - whatever that may be. Yes, it's nonsensical and this mess would appear to be a hangover of regs from the days when it was still OK to smoke in aircraft.

However as with so many questions in Air Law, the EXACT wording of the question and answer options would be the clincher on this one.