Hi bob and RIch

Just wondering on page 323 question 1 of the ppl vfr study guide (online) It says Select the class of controlled airspace In which VFR aircraft may operate without an airways clearance, the answer shows its class D where I always thought it was class E that didn't require an airways clearance, can you guys just clear that up for me

Cheers

You need a clearance to operate in class E airspace if you are IFR. VFR flights do not require a clearance but must maintain listening watch on the appropriate frequency and squawk 1200.

In class D all aircraft get an implied clearance on contact with the tower.

Hi Ray, so does that make my answer right as the question states which class of controlled airspace can VFR operate without an airways clearance , options are A B C D

Cheers

Totally confused as one book has one answer and another book has another

If the options are A, B, C, or D then it can't be E. As Ray stated, a clearance to operate in Class D is granted upon 2 way comms with the tower. It's all in the wording really, a class D clearance isn't really an 'airways' clearance like you need in the other class options.

Have a read of AIP Enroute 1.1 para 12.3. It makes it fairly clear that a clearance IS required to operate in class D airspace, however that clearance may take the form of established radio contact and potentially other instruction from the tower. If the options were only A, B, C, or D, then I would suggest Ellzy is right - option D is probably the least wrong answer (gotta laugh!).

My experience is that the former GAAP capital city secondary airports that are now class D tend to give simple instruction and acknowledgement (callsign plus maintain one thousand five hundred for example - which you then read back). This implies you are cleared to enter that airspace.

However, I have flown through both Karratha and Broome class delta airspace and these towers definitely do give you a full route clearance using the phrase 'airways clearance...' or 'cleared to...', as you would expect in class C airspace (minus the squawk code as neither currently have radar). This clearance must be read back in full as with all other clearances.

So the question is a little misleading. I'm sure Bob hates these types of questions as much as we do, but I suspect they are in there for one very good reason - you can expect questions like this in your CASA exam. Forewarned is forearmed.

The original point of this question was to highlight one of the differences in procedures in Class D compared with Class C. It all depends on the phrase 'Airways Clearance'. An airways clearance is issued by the controller and you are told what height and what track to fly. According to the AIP, a VFR pilot entering Class D tells the controller what his intentions are, and the controller acknowledges with the aircraft's call sign. That acknowledgement is an approval to operate in Class D. In other words, in Class D you tell the tower what you intend to do and he/she tells you if that's OK. In Class C, ATS tells you what to do.

You are correct in noting that some Class D towers are not doing what the AIP says.

I'll have another look at this question because, quite frankly, it's all about the interpretation of the phrase 'airways clearance'. Maybe we should spend our valuable time talking about something a little more practical....

Happy new year!!!!

Guys thank you all so much for your replys, you have all been a great help, think I'm gonna study Air law a little more before I attempt this exam

Cheers

I would like to know more about this, as my experiences as Avalon and Albury attest to this as well.

Cheers, rubber

Please see my post here .

Is that like "procedural separation" (give us for today our "actual" separation)

Interesting Dick Smiths document "Unsafe Skies" shows that the real issue between Class C and D and the use of radar for control appears to be two different unions and pay grades, trained to operate different machinery (talk about bi partisan politics in the same industry).

If something goes wrong with my clearance and I get a violation of controlled airspace (VCAR) did I assume I implied I was cleared and they implied that I wasn't

The pilots prayer
Please give me TCAS now, and make all ultralights that fly around RPT airports mode C transponders, and may they turn them on....(Oh what have a started...Oh too late I just took an ultralight into the starboard engine....)

Good on you Bob, you are spot on with some Class D airports having their own procedures that are little different. It nice when people can just call a spade a spade.

It seems to me we have always had these issues as a country, whether its different health, ambulance, safety, school regulations and departments, but aviation was supposed to be FEDERALLY regulated right?

Good to see the Federal Govt finally get some momentum with the Federalization of the schooling system. To find out if my year 12 Qld Maths to date was equally valid in WA I had to ring the foreign student hotline, and I was born in WA!! (No Joke)

Guess with OH and S you might fall off a roof differently in different states, seems that even the physical sciences (like gravity) have become "heavily" politicised these days too

In my humble opinion, it would appear much of Australian Air Law and sometimes Airport procedures trains the Aussie pilot to make up for the inconsistencies between airports, regulators and air services.

Now back to my political shield, that is only my observation. Excuse me sir, it appears your house MAY be burning down. You May want to get out in a hurry, hang on, I'll call an independent auditor and valuer, both of which have LICENSES to determine whether that MAY be the case. I hope I haven't offended you by telling you that sir....

Well at least I've still got my sense of humour intact..(OK lets get back to shooting the messenger