Hi Mikeman,

I was thinking about his thread the other day given it has been a long time between posts. From memory Bob was meeting with Philip late last year to get a bit more of a run down and I was hoping he might be able to interpret the complexities into plain English (for me anyway).

Hi Bob,

Any update on this one?

Cheers

Phil

Hi Phil,

Bob had a video conference with CASA yesterday discussing the way ahead. It looks like they really are keen to have a new syllabus and are open to reforming the current situation which is great news. I wasn't at the meeting unfortunately (Germany is one hell of a commute) so I can't give any details but I'm sure Bob will post more once there is something concrete to report. There's obviously no time frame being talked about but the process is not being stone-walled or fobbed off.

Cheers,

Rich

Thanks for the update Rich,

Looking forward to Bobs response. Given the couple of months since we were all last discussing this I will be interested to see if the Certificate in UAV has progressed and/or had an influence on CASA's process.

Cheers

Phil

OK guys, here is a summary of what has been going on.

I participated in a video conference yesterday with CASA and some people from a Melbourne based organisation that wants to get involved in UAV sales and training.

CASA has had a bit of stick over this issue, especially the unrealistic requirements for theory training towards the issue of a remote pilot certificate. CASA want to adopt a more meaningful training framework, but they also want the theory and practical training to be integrated.

CASA has already produced an interim syllabus which I have used to generate a curriculum based on the syllabus requirements. I will be working on presenting lesson plans etc to CASA in the next couple of months prior to an actual classroom demonstration to CASA FOIs. Also instructors from the Melbourne based organisation will provide the practical training component for this demonstration which will happen sometime in April. This will be necessary to obtain approval to conduct the first course with 'real' students. Once the new system is up and running, we intend to fine tune the syllabus to bring it closer to being relevant to the task of actually flying a UAV. We would also love to see the theory component become available as an on-line course.

We are working on getting a flying training area approved just beside our hangar here in Redcliffe. CASA are happy with that but it also requires council approval.

So there has been some progress and to some extent it is going to be a learning experience for both ourselves and CASA. It's encouraging to note that CASA also feels that way. In the meantime, I'm afraid, we will have to put up with the present requirement for candidates to pass the CASA PPL exam. It is impossible to say just when the first 'real' courses will be available.

Bob

Bob,

can I say a bit thanks for helping out with this issue. This is obviously a new field everyone is playing catch up on not the least CASA themselves. It would seem that the process of tidying this up into a neat package is going to be a long one.

Given the need of uav operators to obtain authority in the interim I am wondering if we might be able to put together a step by step process under current legislation. After my conversations with Phil and after reading the guides and legislation I feel I have more questions than answers, particularly when it comes to issues such as IREX, medicals, exemptions etc. Obviously not being a pilot means I have no background to try to put this altogether.

There are a few contributors to this thread that are going through the process and may be able to help. Coupled with your knowledge and the resources your website has for PPL it would be good to see a process for UAV cert in the interim. Not being based in Queensland (or Melbourne), personally I was looking at your online resource options to get started.

Again thanks for your support

Regards

Phil

Thanks, again, for everyones input into this great thread.

I am at the first stages of UAV training. Naturally I would like to get as good an understanding on the whole process as possible before jumping in the deep end. I also dont want to have to waste time and money on having to go through unnecessary steps. It looks like we are still several months away from any real changes to the current steps, which are a minefield to get through and a bit of an overkill it seems.

The current step by step process suggested by Phil would be very welcome. It does not look like the steps listed on the CASA web site are totally accurate.

Cheers - Michael

Hi Michael,

I am happy to write out the steps I have come across so far. However I might also have to include a whole of lot of questions for each step that I hope others could clarify.

I agree that the CASA website process appears a little confusing/inconsistent with the legislation and also the emails I have received from Phil. But I must admit these inconsistencies might be a result of my lack of understanding...hence the list of questions. It will be great when this is finally sorted but for some of us the wait may be too long.

I will try to put something together over the next week, if others are happy to contribute...please!!!

Cheers

Phil

I started my full time BAK/PPL course this week, here at Bob's school.

I have started putting together a step by step guide on the process (and costs) leading up to the Controller Certificate, based on my personal experiences. Once I am ready I will submit this on the forum.

Cheers - Michael

Well the best way to understand it is just to do it! Good luck!

I haven't put together the details I got from Phil/CASA website/legislation as yet, as I am reading more and more articles with quotes from CASA suggesting changes to regulations. Here is the latest found in the NSW Land newspaper.

"He...[a drone owner]...is hamstrung by current CASA rules that dictate that to fly a drone for profit he would need to spend about $22000 on training and certification."

"He's has several requests to film several events but has had to knock them back because of CASA restrictions. Instead he videos trial events for free"

"Last week CASA countered these frustrations by proposing that anyone be allowed to fly a drone under two kilograms after filling out an online application." WTF? $20,0000 down to an online form!!!

At this stage I am not sure how I could justify (more realistically) a $10000+ price tag when CASA are making such statements.

I also understand that at least one UAV retail business in Aus is offering the Certificate IV in UAV operation. This is the same course that Phil Presgrave hinted to me a while back and was listed on training.gov.au as a registered course over six months ago. Are we seeing an online approval with certificate prerequisite!?!?! Why would anyone bother with the CertIV under current regs?

Correction: Certificate 3...See training.gov.au/Training/Details/AVI30612 for the training package

Hi all, for info...below is Phil Presgrave's to response to my concerns in the above post. The first email is his response, the second my original questions to him. (too many Phils)

---

Hi Phil (L),

Recent press releases have made erroneous statements about proposed changes to the regulation relating to unmanned aircraft systems (UAS). CASA stresses that there is no significant changes to the regulation planned in the foreseeable future.

What CASA is doing is providing more comprehensive guidance to industry on the regulatory requirements and approval processes for commercial operation of unmanned aircraft. This is being done through Project OS11/20, and CASA has established an industry working to help develop this guidance material. Information relating to Project OS11/20 can be found on the CASA website: www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:PWA::pc=PC_100532 . Questions relating to the project should be referred to the project manager at: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Review and amendment of the regulations is a longer term goal.

Regarding training, there are still no approved trainers of UAS specifics in Australia; please continue to watch our website.

Thanks

Cheers

Phil (Presgrave)

---

From: Phil L
Sent: Tuesday, 12 March 2013 7:38 PM
To: Presgrave, Phil
Subject: UAV Changes to Legislation?

Hi Philip (Presgrave),

its has been a while since I have contacted you but I have been having discussions with Bob Tait and other members of his forum about UAV certification.

I have decided not to proceed at this stage with the UAS certification (or any UAS operation) due to the uncertainty that keeps raising its head in regards to changes in processes and the multitude of UAV operators happily running commercial operations without OCs. (I seem to come across a new one each week).

I recently read an article in the NSW Land Magazine in which CASA have been quoted as stating"...[CASA propose]...that anyone be allowed to fly a drone under two kilograms after filling out an online application."

I also see that the Cert III in aviation you previously mentioned has now been developed on training.gov.au. I was directed to this by a UAV operator who suggested at least one organisation is now offering the training, although I am yet to confirm as much. Are you aware who is undertaking this training? Also can you advise why this is in fact would even be proposed if it has no relevance towards CASA requirements? Without some impending changes to legislation I fail to see any Registered Training Organisations drawing the numbers if operators are already happily ignoring the current legislation.

To be honest it is very difficult to justify the financial burdens of the CASA regulations and still be competitive against every other operator currently offering services illegally. I realise it is very difficult for CASA to enforce but if current legislation is to continue what are the steps being taken to address these illegal operations?

Are you able then to clarify CASAs position in light of the recent comments and training options developing?

Much appreciated

Phil (L)