Phil

I'm with you mate. I have looked closely at the UAV certification issue and my involvement as a theory provider. The whole thing is so nebulous that it's difficult to get any clear indication of just what would be expected of our organisation. I was led to believe that CASA would insist that any training would be integrated and the theory component would have to be delivered on-site with the practical flying training.

Since we would be responsible for the GA content including lesson plans, classroom presentations and the production of an instructor manual, I could not justify the enormous input of time and resources required to continue our direct involvement in the project - especially when there is no clear structured relevant syllabus in place and there is a high chance that the whole thing will change direction in the future and render our efforts useless. As you say, why would prospective operators commit to the cost in time and money to obtain a certificate when others are simply ignoring CASA and getting on with their business.

Bob,

Yes, a huge gamble for any RTO. As a TAFE teacher I have seen plenty of money lost based upon state/federal govt decisions.

By the amount of operators just in my area I can only guess like you say that there are hundreds of operators just getting on with it without consequence. When in Rome.... Funnily you will see I did ask Phil to clarify what steps CASA are taking to prevent this occurring but no response on this one. After all flying is is all about risk management; likelihood and consequence

I had a look at Project OS11/20 on CASAs website but apart from an approval to review the process back in 2011 there is no other information on any development. I get more here than from CASA. I have asked Jim Coyne to give me a call but I am guessing cards are being played close to the chest.

In reality it seems the definition of 'commercial' under UAS regs is being interpreted in many ways. I have chatted to a few UAS retailers who are using what they see as ambiguity in the legislation to advise buyers that they do not in fact require an OC. CASA obviously take a very different here, but then if an industry guidance group is required to interpret and relate the information, contradictory interpretations are expected.

Anyway thanks again for your help. I look forward to Michael's progress reports but cannot say I am going to jump in right now.

Cheers

Phil

I will be sitting my PPL exam this Monday and am really looking forward to it. Once I have that I will send in a more detailed report on what my findings are. Phil Presgrave has also sent me a detailed roadmap on the UAV Controller and Operator certification processes. I will compile it all, add some recommendations and put it all up on the forum.

There were actually 5 of us (out of 22) that went to Bob Tait's 3 week BAK/PPL, as part of the UAV certification process. Some of these guys had actually been confronted by CASA and issued warnings about operating without certification. So, it looks like CASA is actually clamping down on illegal operators. Those retailer pushing the "ambiguous" definition of commercial operations should have their wings clipped at some stage. After going through the Law component of the PPL course it is clear that there is no ambiguity at all with what constitutes private and commercial operations in aviation.

Cheers - Michael

Hi Michael,

thanks for keeping us up to date. And good luck with the exam!!!

Looking forward to your report!

I successfully passed my PPL on Monday and here is a summary of the steps so far:


Steps to become a Certified UAV Controller in Australia

Step 1: Apply for an ARN (Aviation Ref No) from CASA (CLARC)

Action: CASA Form 1162

Cost: $0 (free)

Step 2: BAK/PPL training

Action: Undergo a training course (full time, correspondence or on-line) that runs through the BAK and PPL material.

Cost: Full time course at Bob Tait’s Aviation school cost $1400 + 2 Books ($172)

Step 3: Purchase various items

Action: You will need to purchase the following: VFR (Day Booklet), PCA (Planning Chart Australia), ERSA, VFG – Visual Flight Rules Guide, E6B Flight Computer, Plotter & Ruler Combined, Log Book (not necessary, but recommended)
Cost: Just over $200

Step 4: Aircraft Radio Operator Certificate of Proficiency (AROCOP) Training – usually a half day course.

Action: Undergo training for Radio Operator Certificate of Proficiency.

Cost: $50 to trainer

Step 5: Sit the on-line Aircraft Radio Operator Certificate of Proficiency (AROCOP) exam (Oral and Practical Components) with a CASA FOI or Approved Check Radio Operator

Action: 1-1.5 hour on-line exam (30 questions + oral test. 90% pass mark). Obtain an Aircraft Radio Operator Certificate of Profiency

Cost: $50 to CASA

Step 6: Apply for exemption letters from CASA, once you have your ARN

Action: Exemption Letter from sitting the BAK Exam (1.5 hours on-line cyber-exam. 70% pass mark. 1-3 points each question)

Action: Exemption Letter from sitting the IREX Exam (UAV Line of Sight)

Cost: $100 to CASA if you sit the BAK exam

Step 7: Book a sitting for the PPL exam

Action: The PPL exam sitting has to be booked on-line through ASL aslau.aspeqexams.com/Booking/ExamSchedule

Cost: $110 + $65 = $175

Step 8: Sit the on-line PPLA or PPLH cyber-exam

Action: Sit 3.5 hours (210 minutes) on-line cyber-exam at selected venue (eg Archerfield). 70% pass mark. 55-60 Questions. 1-3 points each question.

Obtain Single Exam results page and Knowledge Deficiency Report (KDR).

Step 9: UAV Training Course

Action: Undertake a UAV Type Training Course conducted by the manufacturer, manufacturer agent, UAV Operator Certificate holder or approved flying training organisation.

Cost: $?

Step 10: Log 5 hours UAV Operating experience

Action: To be eligible for a UAV Controller Certificate you need at least 5 hours UAV Operating Aeronautical Experience. Log this is your Log book.

Cost: $?

Step 11: Apply for UAV Controllers Certificate from CASA

Action: CASA Form 1087

Cost: $160

So, I am not even there yet (for my Controller Certificate) and it has already cost me around $2300. Add in all of the other costs like the accommodation, fuel and living expenses it is quickly adding up to be an expensive and time consuming process. If CASA are making it so hard and expensive to go through all of these steps then I hope that this money is all going to be well spent. If they do not crack down harder on the illegal controllers and operators then why should people like me have to go through all of this?

Cheers - Michael

Thanks for posting this information. It can't but help others thinking about starting off. Congratulations on your PPL pass too

Cheers,

Rich

Wow, great summary thanks Mike. Congrats! Are you obtaining the OC or working under an existing one?

Philip stated to expect around $7500 in CASA fees for the OC permit. Looking at the required documentation there is probably another say $5-10k in time and expenses to get these together. I am hoping you don't have to face this one

Are CASA getting serous? I see there are only two OCs listed for NSW on CASAs website but I am aware of at least a half a dozen just in my area that obviously aren't on the list. From a business perspective you might justify an OC on the premise that this long, difficult and expensive procedure prevents every man and his dog starting their own UAV operations. Unfortunately this is not the case. Hopefully for those outlaying the resources, CASA does get serious.

It is interesting that whilst the safety issues used to justify commercial permits are also an issue with non commercial UAVs, non commercial UAVs remain relatively unlegislated. In reality anyone can now put together a commercial quality UAV for under $600 with a little bit of knowledge. (you can already buy UAVs as toys from games shops!!!). If other countries are anything to go by I am guessing CASA are going to be swamped with commercial and non commercial UAVs that I doubt current legislation will be able to cope with. Interesting times.

Anyway,apologies for the rant and thanks again Mike.

Once I have wrapped up the Controller Certificate (CC) I will send in an updated summary on the steps and costs...

This is, of course, only the first part of a 2 part process. In aviation terms it will be like having my Private Pilot Licence. And like having a PPL I will not be allowed to fly independently for commercial purposes. The Operator Certificate (OC), like the Comercial Pilot License (CPL), will be required in order to do this (or I will have to fly for OC operation/s). The OC part will be the hardest, most expensive and longest of the two.

CASA has to come to the party and clamp down on all of those uncertified commercial UAV operations if they are to get anyone (like the 5 of us on the course) to do the right thing and go through all of this.

The ACUO (Australian Certified UAV Operators Inc) looks like the kind of group that will lobby things to CASA www.acuo.org.au/ I am thinking about joining them (as an Associate Member) to add another voice to the cause.

Cheers - Michael

PS Thanks, Richard, for your great tutoring during the BAK/PPL course. You did a great job and we all really enjoyed the course.

Hi all. I thought I would add my (brief) experience with this situation.

I arrived here by googling 'UAS operators certificate', wondering about the requirements to acquire said certificate.

This may sound a bit silly but I had this idea quite some time ago to start a small aerial photography business by using small multicopters and mounted cameras. After a bit of googling I discovered that CASA had a requirement to obtain the operators certificate to legally fly for reward. So I set out and began detailing a business plan for this venture, doing research into types of cameras and types of flight equipment to use. After a few hours of making spreadsheets and a few-thousand word business plan, I looked further into the true cost of obtaining CASA's OC for UAS flight. I was quite taken back at what was listed - costs running into the thousands just for this? It seemed quite absurd for something that I was considering doing. Though coming into this thread I can understand - I guess the operators out there use more powerful equipment that runs into the tens of thousands of dollars for major projects?

It seems that for something that I want to get into, it just does not seem worth it. Perhaps in the future considerations could be made for smaller operators, or people who just want to do very low level aerial photography on the side without the extensive cost and training. I just wanted to take pictures... so innocent hahaha.

I apologise if this all sounds rather lame or insincere to others who are licenced... it just fustrates me.

Cheers.

Hello all,

I have just received my OC within the last few weeks and I did it all single handed. It took me about 12 months and yes, it did cost a lot of money!

I could write for days about the process but just don't have time.

If anyone has any specific questions I will do my best to answer as I now know all too well how difficult it is to enter this industry!

Matt.